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| nmilasich |
 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:58 pm Post subject: problem: New player made a really feeble character. |
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Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 84
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Soo. . . Could use some ideas on how to deal with this situation.
I should have seen it coming.
New player has played some 3.5, but never to a 11th level game. Joins my HOTK game, replacing veteran and brutally powerful dwarf fighter/paladin Klob, who's player is off for 8 weeks playing pool tournaments.
She's nice, decides to make a 10th level human monk. Now, that should have been my first warning sign. Monks have to be done right to be useful. But, I figured she knew what she was donig, and if her character was bad, we could rectify it.
After our first combat, I've realized how bad it is. She's got 47 hitpoints, like a +6 to hit with flurry of blows, and does 1d10 damage. No strength bonus, she's a high dex high wis monk without weapon finesse. Instead she took throw anything because it was funny. Other players and my self tried to make suggestions, but she's Very Happy With Her Character Thank You Very Much.
Unfortunately, the rest of the party is not, it's a combat and dungeong delving campaign and she's gonna die in combat very soon if she's not really careful. She has less hit points than the wizard. . . And when she dies, I'm afraid the others might not bother to raise her because she sucks so badly, which could lead to hurt feelings among the players. And when she gets her 1/4 share of experience, that will soon begin to annoy my other players.
I'm thinking some magic items might help get her up to speed, but I'm worried about her stubborness on change. I think I need to just let her play for a few weeks and then when she asks how not to suck, let her change around a few feats.
It's a touchy situation because I don't know the player involved so well, and neither do the other players, except my wife. She seems to do a lot of free-form roleplaying, and maybe is not big on the team concept.
Well, anyone had similar problems? Resolutions? Advice?
Thanks!
Nick |
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| ChristinaStiles |
| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:29 am Post subject: |
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I've never had a situation like this, but it sounds like you've given her notice that the character isn't up to par for the campaign and will likely not survive. If she wants to continue to play the character as-is, then let her. Then let her suffer the consequences and roll up a new character. Or, if you want to make her a real part of the group, then ratchet down the bad guys/encounters to be suitable for a weaker party. Your choice.
Sometimes, for whatever reason, a player just doesn't gel with a group. Ultimately, you've got to decide if this is one of those situations, and if that turns out to be the case, then just let the player know it isn't going to work out. However, if she's adding something to the campaign, role-playing well, and willing to learn to work as a team, then work with her. Otherwise, say it's been nice trying. You definitely don't want to spoil the game for your long-time players. |
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| Zherog |
| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 586
Location: Bensalem, PA
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I think, first and foremost, you need to talk to her some more. Throw Anything is an amusing feat -- especially when you pick up the halfling -- but it's definitely on the weaker side of feats. And it's made even weaker in a dungeon delve situation, where "anything" amounts to, "Can I find a rock to throw?"
So yeah, I think you and her need to have some more conversations -- about the game, about how the game plays at your table, about her choices, and about what the consequences of her choices are. Of course, remember it's a friendly conversation. And if she's OK with what's coming down the road, then you've pretty much done all you can do.
If she's willing to take mechanical advice, here's some options.
- I read a lot about the swordsage class from Tome of Battle and how it makes a great monk. But I don't have the book, so I can't say for sure. But if you have it, it could be worth talking about.
- Give her a bonus feat of either Weapon Finesse in Insightful Strike (a feat from Book of Exalted Deeds that allows you to use Wisdom in place of Strength for melee attacks). I'd actually lean towards Insightful Strike, personally, because I think it fits the flavor of the monk a little better.
- Offer to let her use the Pathfinder monk in place of the 3.5 monk. It's not superpowered, but it is mechanically stronger than the 3.5 class, and will give her a bit more breathing room to make build mistakes.
- 47 hit points? Is her math correct? If she got max at first and average rolls the other 9 levels, she'd have 48-49 hit points. So double check the math there. I use a house rule that guarantees the player half their Hit Die when they roll hit points. So using your monk as an example, if she rolled a 1 for her hit points, she'd get 4.
- +6 on flurry sounds low. (Of course, it's often derisively called flurry of misses for a reason.) So, she's 10th level which gives her a +7/+2 BAB in normal attacks, and a flurry of +7/+7/+2. So yeah, I guess that's close to +6. Yeesh. Weapon Finesse or Insightful Strike will help that.
Alternately, find a way to get her an enhancement bonus - greater magic fang or amulet of mighty fists come to mind.
- Magic items -- such as an amulet of mighty fists previously mentioned -- can help, certainly. You just have to be careful that loading her up with magic items doesn't upset your other players, when she's rocking all sorts of cool items just to get her up to par. That's a delicate balancing act.
- Find encounters and challenges that play to her abilities. For example, find a reason to need to throw a rock at a target, giving her a chance to play to one of her built-in strengths.
I still think, though, that talking some more is the best option. Explain the problem, and offer to help find solutions when rebuilding so that she's more sound mechanically while still having the "fun" stuff she likes such as Throw Anything.
In the end, though, you might have to decide if she's going to be a fit in your game or not. Not everybody fits well together, unfortunately.
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John Ling
Freelance Writer
Kobold Fan |
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| nmilasich |
| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 26 Apr 2009
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Thanks for the advice.
I'm going to let her play her character, and see how it goes. I think she didn't take her bonus hp for favored class, and I also want to let her do a few combats and figure out what she's looking for in a character.
Also, if the character dies, I'm quietly let another member of the group know that if the player wants the character raised, I'll make good on the diamond dust. At that point, it's about preventing bad feeling among the PLAYERS.
Thank!
Nick |
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| Amy Carrier |
| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Gee, you must have some really mercenary players if they would actually choose to let her stay dead. My players not only go on quests to recover their fellow PC’s, they even go on quests to raise their NPC friends!
I think that encouraging them to raise her is a very good idea. After all, we play D&D to have fun, and whenever possible it should be fun for all the players – old and new alike. |
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| nmilasich |
| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:59 pm Post subject: Worked out well, actually |
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One of the other players casually mentioned some things that the new player may of forgotten. She was very interested, and over the two weeks the game was off, she decided to rebuild. We looked at treantmonk's guide to monks (good site!) and she moved her 18 to strength. Along with some magical enhancers supplied by the party, the monk became quite good. She went toe-to-toe with some barbed devils and lived to tell about it, and does quite good combat damage. Combined with her ki and movement, the player enjoyed her character, and the character was appreciated by the party.
Highlight: She charges up a set of steps to find a hidden evil cleric. The cleric first attempts to dominate the monk into diving into lava. Monk will saves. The cleric then drops a flame strike. Monk evades. Monk rushes cleric, does massive flurry of blows damage, killing cleric. I set the scene by explaining that the monk bashes the cleric's forehead against a altar until the skull pops.
So, all is well that ends well! |
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| Amy Carrier |
| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Glad to hear that it all worked out!  |
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| Neostrider |
| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:43 am Post subject: |
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While it sounds she's definitely on the weak side of monks, I think her choices can be solid if played correctly and given ample opportunities to do things.
Her high dex makes throw anything a much better feat, and to make it useful every so often would really improve everyone's experience all around. Offer her interesting things to throw:
add chairs to dungeon rooms
Use strange crystals which cause strange effects on those that they touch
Have the enemy use a few throwing weapons and watch as she tosses them back
Her low hp should be balanced with her preference for range, and she sounds particularly high AC so she should be fine. When an issue like this occurs in my game, I usually try to examine my player's feats and create moments to highlight them. |
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| juliaanderson |
| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| mightymongo |
| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: Re: Worked out well...actually? |
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| nmilasich wrote: |
| I set the scene by explaining that the monk bashes the cleric's forehead against a altar until the skull pops....So, all is well that ends well! |
Really? Spilled cleric brains and blood on an evil altar....? What could possibly go wrong with THAT in a high fantasy setting....?!?!  |
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