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| Wolfgang |
 Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject: Conversions |
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Kobold Overlord
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 4987
Location: The Mines
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I've always resisted the fan requests for dual-stat adventures, and I haven't done a lot of conversions for my own use. It's an art unto itself, moving from system to system, or even from edition to edition.
But now I'm considering it for Halls of the Mountain King.
Partly, this is just because there's so little 4E adventure material out there. Part of it is (irrationally) the urge to see "River King" followed by "Mountain King". Hey 2 parts of a trilogy!
And part of it is that 4E creature design is a LOT faster and easier than 3E creature design, so I think it could actually *work*.
But I'm sure there are pitfalls and problems. Anyone have experience with this? I know some folks are converting Paizo material to 4E. Just thinking out loud here....
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Wolfgang Baur
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| terraleon |
| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Contributor
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 2013
Location: upstate NY
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I think it's a very feasible project. The 4E stat blocks are pretty straightforward... yeah. It could be done without too much trouble.
-Ben.
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| Aberzanzorax |
| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Patron
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 276
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I have two thoughts on this:
1. I'm cool with it unless one or the other adventure suffers. (I don't think you'd let that happen, Wolfgang).
2. I think it would need to be truly "converted", not just stat blocks different.
I know Green Ronin released a product (I can't remember the name...I don't own it yet either, sigh) that was "editionless" and then came out with the support products for the edition stats....
But that was True20 and D20.
My opinion is that 4e and 3e are different enough tactically, that the encounters would need to be dramatically different...and thus re-written/converted.
Also, there might even be some BBEG out of battle issues...such as, for example, if teleport is key for a BBEG in 3e but much slower in 4e. The answer to this is to either write something different addressing this, or constrain the writing so that it fits within the limitations of both editions...Which, to me means constraining it to 4e, as everything possible in 4e is also possible in 3e, but not the other way around (due to perhaps too much flexibility/imbalance with 3e.)
Pros, though: I think you stand to lose approximately 1/3rd (a guess) of your patrons if you go with one edition or the other as things are set up. I guess that is more than usual. It's owing to the dramatic differences in tastes that the editions appeal to (and thus the edition wars).
In essence, If you do it, cool, but one of the major things I don't like about 4e (as a DM/adventure writer for my group) is that it is more limiting. I'd not want to see that imposed on this if it goes 3e. Course, you could always add rituals/powers/magic items that disintegrate upon the death of the BBEG/racial powers that make the NPCs 3e-ish...but then I don't know how the 4e folks would like that. |
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| bamclean |
| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:08 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Posts: 3
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I've had some good success and great fun in converting 3e monsters and NPCs over to 4e. Monster creation is definitely one of the strengths of the system. While a good conversion with balanced encounters will require more than just rewriting the stat blocks, the process isn't that difficult or challenging. Incorporating some skill challenges might be an interesting task though.
Overall, I don't think there's anything that 3e can do that we can't make work in 4e with a little creativity and original material. The hard part will be done by all of the patrons over the course of the project - crafting the story. And if the brainstorming is anything to be judged by, it will be a very compelling one indeed.
So count me in for a conversion if we go that route.
aka Shadowborn |
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| Watcher |
| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Patron
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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Location: Your TARDIS
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| I have no experience, but I'd sure like to volunteer and try. |
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| FatRat |
| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 19 May 2008
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Although I'm in as a 4e patron and would like to work on a conversion, I agree that the conversion should only be done if it does not impact the OGL design (assuming the OGL crowd holds its lead all the way to the proverbial finish line). Nor do I think the OGL design be limited in any fashion by the prospect of the conversion...that would be unfair to the OGL patrons. However, depending on the amount of “creative license” entailed with the conversion, I’m not sure that would prevent or cause any additional difficulties to a conversion project.
It seems that things like Fly and Teleport that have often been cited as being a problem for conversion are not all that problematic except at a nitty-gritty mechanics level. Assume, for example, that a 3e adventure has some encounter requiring the PCs cross a wide chasm. Depending on level, Fly/Teleport like strategies may very well be the default solution in 3e. In fact, that chasm may largely be there to deplete these very resources so they are unavailable at a later encounter. If this is the case, why even bother converting? Simply use the chasm as fluff and provide a way across since the real reason for its inclusion in the 3e adventure doesn’t exist in 4e. On the other hand, if the chasm is central to the story (e.g., it has importance as a barrier in some fashion or the like), use some of that creativity bamclean (aka Shadowborn) suggests. Turn it into a skill challenge or a “mini-game” similar to a certain rushing river encounter in River King.
I guess I’m suggesting that it is best not to miss the forest for the trees when looking to convert. If the converters have to stay “true” to the nitty-gritty details, the conversion will likely be difficult if not impossible. If they are tasked more with staying true to the general story and theme of the adventure and encounters, the project is probably much more doable. The end product may not look exactly the same as the 3e version (e.g., simply with 4e stat blocks inserted) but isn’t that kind of the point. |
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| Wolfgang |
| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Kobold Overlord
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 4987
Location: The Mines
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Yeah, I'd agree that a faithful conversion is not really desirable. The conversion would need to capture the spirit of the thing for some encounters, keep some pretty much the same, and start over for others.
I'm not a big fan of literal translation, especially as the balance points are different for monster numbers and challenge levels between the editions.
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Wolfgang Baur
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