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| m8adam |
 Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:57 pm Post subject: Adventure Design Forum? |
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Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 148
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Hey,
I was thinking recently about getting back to attempting to design some of my own adventures, which is actually how I stumbled across Kobold in the first place. As such, I was thinking how great it would be if there was a forum subsection here where folks could bounce around ideas and ask for advice regarding adventure design. I know I'd love to get feedback from the pro's and semi-pro's of open design. Thoughts?
Adam |
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| Daigle |
| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 562
Location: Redmond, WA
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| I'd swing in and talk shop. |
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| James Thomas |
| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 727
Location: Rocklin, California
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Yeah m8adam! I remember how both you and Daigle helped me cut my teeth on monster design on Tales of the Old Margreve project. It was like a GM workshop!  S'like you're reading my mind! I'm so down with this I could start tomorrow! If we could have our own topic zone, a GM could start a thread and get some "best minds" feedback. Every GM can use a little help now and then.
Matter-of-fact, right now my weekly homebrew game could use an idea or two from another experienced GM. Fresh ideas and what I call "creative leverage" is just what the doctor ordered! It's classier here than at some other messageboards. Less likely to get trolls here in the mines... if you know what I mean.
So when do we start? I'm ready to go! |
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| m8adam |
| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Well, to start with, right now I'm wondering what do folks consider to be the crucial elements of an adventure plot? I know there have been a couple of posts relating adventure writing to screen writing, in that plots develop similarly, but what sort of 'outline' process do people use, and how does it add or detract from the experience? |
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| James Thomas |
| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 727
Location: Rocklin, California
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| My players are wildly unpredictable. Still I usually use a "Story Board" method to put it together. |
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| m8adam |
| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:40 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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Do you have any pre-determined general plot elements? for example, developing the plot from considerations of a need for progression from hook to discovery to twist to climax or anything like that?
Also, on the unpredictable players front, how do folks deal with the possibility of players who just don't figure out a mystery or discover a clue? Maybe that's more of a GM'ing question though? |
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| m8adam |
| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Daigle |
| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 562
Location: Redmond, WA
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When running a game, I tend not to read boxed text out loud as is anyway, so as a user of material, it wouldn’t change anything about my experience other than making the text look more structured and formulaic.
As an author, I try not to overly word the boxed text or include things that wouldn’t read easily. When writing descriptive text, I try to keep it short and to the point, and always read it out loud when editing. If it sounds tedious, I change it. That said, the bullet point method presented in the article takes a 140 word bit of descriptive text (140 is a lot, in my opinion) and distills it into just over 50 words. That word count can come in handy elsewhere, for sure, but an author could easily just write a bit less and do it better.
I don’t really have a strong opinion either way. The bullet point style is cleaner and presents the important information up front, but it also makes the GM rely on their own vocabulary and descriptive abilities. Running text is more fun (to write and read), despite the chances it has to be boring or awkward. Both styles have merit, and as a freelancer I do what I’m asked, so it’s up to publishers to tell me what to do. |
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| Wolfgang |
| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 4988
Location: The Mines
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I agree with Charles but I think his blog entry sets up quite a straw man. I strive to write descriptive text that is very concise.
Bullet points may work better at the table, but I believe that they might fail to engage the DM during prep time. If I have to read a lot of bulleted lists, I tend to tune out...
So there's really two audiences. The DM at prep time wants to know the setting, characters, and challenges so he can present them to the players. The DM at the table wants everything organized for playability on the page.
There's some tension between the two.
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Wolfgang Baur
Publisher, Kobold Press |
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| Wicht |
| Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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I read Charles' article right after I had finished writing up some descriptive text and it gave me pause.
I can see his point for running a game but I wasn't sure about how it would work for presenting the scene to the DM. I decided that to do it justice in a prepublished module you would actually have to present the information twice. Once as descriptive text to set the scene in the DM's mind and then again to regurgitate the information in a concise bulleted way.
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-Jonathan McAnulty (kobold freelancer level 1)
"Specialization is for Insects." |
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| m8adam |
| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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| Hm. Seems like descriptive text could be minimized to one or two sentences to describe the atmosphere (lighting, smells, etc.) and important "crunch" info would do best scaled down to bullet points? |
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| James Thomas |
| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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Location: Rocklin, California
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| Yes, I think that bulleted or minimized descriptive text is a good idea for the "act" of GMing. But there's also another purpose to descriptive text: to give a vivid picture of the scene for the GM and Players. Often, it's the only thing that creates mood and imagery in written adventures. |
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| m8adam |
| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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| That's a really good point, James. While you can have a bullet point mentioning that a room is smoke filled, a sentence describing the "fat sweaty faces of "made-men" leering out of a haze of cigar smoke" definitely sets a mood. |
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| Amy Carrier |
| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 31 May 2008
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| Unless word count is an issue, why not have both? A paragraph of scintilating prose to help get the DM's creative juices flowing, followed by a "What the players need to know" bullet list. |
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| Wicht |
| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 04 Jul 2008
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| Amy Carrier wrote: |
| Unless word count is an issue, why not have both? A paragraph of scintilating prose to help get the DM's creative juices flowing, followed by a "What the players need to know" bullet list. |
When writing adventures to publish, Word Count is almost always something of an issue.
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-Jonathan McAnulty (kobold freelancer level 1)
"Specialization is for Insects." |
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