| Do You Allow Third Party Publisher (3PP) Content in Your Game? |
| Never - I ONLY allow official material produced by Paizo |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Rarely - There would need to be a very specific reason and I would need to review it quite a bit first |
|
5% |
[ 1 ] |
| Sometimes - As long as I have looked over and approved it, why not? |
|
61% |
[ 11 ] |
| All The Time - I have no problem at all allowing 3PP material; the more the merrier! |
|
33% |
[ 6 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 18 |
|
| Author |
Message
|
| marcr |
 Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:54 am Post subject: Do You Allow Third Party Publisher Content in Your Game? |
 |
|
Patron
Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 364
|
A thread over on the Paizo.com message boards got me wondering about this, so I thought perhaps a poll might be in order.
Here is the thread in question:
Why is there so much hate for 3PP, and what can we do to change that?
Check it out and then come back and cast your vote.
_________________
Marc Radle
Graphic Artist | Illustrator | Writer | Designer
Pathfinder & Kobold Fan |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| Watcher |
| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Patron
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 1625
Location: Your TARDIS
|
I believe an honest question deserves an honest answer.
One factor that influences me is HeroLab inclusion. And I'm embarrassed to say that because I like to write 3PP material, so I feel like a hypocrite say this. On the other hand, you're asking a valid question about how to capture more business.
My gaming group is in New Jersey and Louisville KY. I'm a full time maptooler who runs his campaign in that format almost weekly. I use macros and stuff to facilitate the game, and we talk over a Ventrilo server I rent.
I trust my players, but I like to keep tabs on character sheets. I also like to reference their character sheets. Yes, Maptools can do some of that, but sometimes I like to see spell DC's, or specific special abilities. I can put all of the PCs in portfolio and have it running in the background of Maptools. When players update their characters they e-mail me their character sheets and I update their tokens. It's a nice system that gives me all the advantages of face to face.
Long and short: when the material is not in HeroLab, it's a challenge for me to accept it. I, myself, am not much in the way of a programmer, so there is a perfectly good editor, I'm just not proficient with it. Again, I cringe saying that as a freelancer on a 3PP messageboard. Then again, I deplore cowardice, and it is my honest reaction. Make of it what you will.
Currently HeroLab has started a program for 3PP's. I am excited by that.
Finally, I am not LoneWolf's shill, or sales representative. They wouldn't know me from Adam.
_________________
Jim Groves
Contributor, Author
OD's Resident and Original Loki |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Neostrider |
| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Patron
Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 316
|
I voted rarely, and I feel back doing it because I'm also trying to be a 3PP. I will allow it if I read it over and it looks fun but fair, and I feel that I rarely get that from a 3PP piece. Open Design has had a pretty good 'pass' score from me. There was a period though with 3.5 where everyone was feeding the power creep. I like more roleplaying, and so I didn't like seeing players taking abilities and spells that were quickly avoiding problem solving or a roleplaying opportunity.
If I read it over and I think its fair I'll allow it, but as a whole its more rare than sometimes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Wolfgang |
| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
Kobold Overlord
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 4988
Location: The Mines
|
Interesting results on the poll. I think having worked at a couple of the 1PP companies gives me a totally skewed perspective on this issue. I tend to trust certain designers, regardless of where they publisher, rather than certain companies.
_________________
Wolfgang Baur
Publisher, Kobold Press |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Wicht |
| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Patron
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 279
|
| Wolfgang wrote: |
| Interesting results on the poll. I think having worked at a couple of the 1PP companies gives me a totally skewed perspective on this issue. I tend to trust certain designers, regardless of where they publisher, rather than certain companies. |
I can see that.
I voted Sometimes, but its a fairly flexible sometimes. I know better than to allow anything and everything, but I really don't mind mixing and matching.
_________________
-Jonathan McAnulty (kobold freelancer level 1)
"Specialization is for Insects." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Watcher |
| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Patron
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 1625
Location: Your TARDIS
|
Yeah, I think i've overcome the trust issue. It's more ease of use, in my own home dynamic. It would probably be different around the kitchen table.
_________________
Jim Groves
Contributor, Author
OD's Resident and Original Loki |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Zherog |
| Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Contributor
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 586
Location: Bensalem, PA
|
I voted "sometimes" but I wanted to add some clarifications.
First, my group still plays 3.5, so that immediately invalidated the first option of the poll -- since paizo is 3rd party publisher in our game. 
As a general rule of thumb for my table, anything in the core 3 books is allowed. Yes, I know there's broken stuff in core - but it's generally only broken if the DM is an idiot. And while some people might disagree, I don't think I'm an idiot.
If you want to use something other than core, the table rule is to ask before you write it on your character sheet. If I don't have the product it's from, you need to loan me your copy. Chances are, I'll allow it. There's a slim chance that I'll allow it but make changes to it. There's a very very small chance that I'll just say no.
Honestly, I can't recall the last time I said no. I recall saying no once about 7 years ago or so, when one of my players wanted to take a new prestige class from Dragon magazine (Nightsong Enforcer - this was before it was reprinted in one of the books), and I said no mostly out of spite (I'm ashamed to admit). While I'm sure I've said no once or twice since then, I can't recall them.
So, as far as the poll's choices go, the "sometimes" answer was closest to how my game table works, since I do require to see it first. But I generally let just about anything in. If letting you have a specific feat or spell or whatever helps make the game more fun for you, I think I'm clever enough as a DM to handle it.
_________________
John Ling
Freelance Writer
Kobold Fan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Amy Carrier |
| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Patron
Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 588
|
As usual, I seem to have arrived after the party is over. Normally I would not post to a thread this old, but as someone who loves Open Design and wants to see it prosper, I think Marcr's question is very important and deserves as much attention as possible.
By far my main complaint with 3PP is Power Creep. However, this problem is not unique to Third Party Publishers; I even looked upon a lot of the old official 3E splat books with a jaundiced eye for this reason.
Power Creep is evil:
- It slowly robs the game world of internal consistency (and internal consistency is vital for Willing Suspension of Disbelief).
- It makes more work for the DM since a group with similar "experience point" levels can have wildly differing "actual power" levels (And I'm not talking about the fun kind of work like dungeon designing; I mean plain old non-fun drudge work.)
- It makes more work for the DM since I must analyze new supplements and try to figure out which rules contain hidden power creep traps. (See note above regarding fun work vs. drudge work.)
- It makes new "tricked out" characters overshadow long established "core build" characters, which makes the players with those overshadowed characters feel useless. Note: In every game I've ever seen, the core-builders always outnumber the power-builders. So it only takes one unbalanced splat book to ruin the fun for the majority of players.
- Even for those players who love to say "Pimp My Character", most of the fun is short-term. In the long run, the fun fades. Either because challenges are now too easy, or else because some new even-more-tricked-out character comes along and overshadows the old tricked-out character.
- Power creep not only makes established characters feel useless, it renders older supplements useless. I spent my hard-earned money for those dungeon modules, now I've either got to spend a long time tyring to modify them (see note above regarding fun work vs. drudge work) or else I can just set them on my shelf and forget about them.
That is one of the things, one of the important things, I have come to love about KQ's Open Design projects. Power Creep is always very low, often near or actually at zero. (Go to Paizo's website and check the reviews I posted for Sigfried Trent's "Advanced Feats" books. I consistently praised his "power-steady" approach.)
Death to Power Creep! Long live Open Design! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
