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| Wolfgang |
 Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Kobold Overlord
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 4988
Location: The Mines
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The silver lining is that people do like the projects well enough to steal them. It's also a perfect case of theft, since the only ones losing income from this are the designers, mappers, and artists.
I'll keep producing them, and I have been giving quite a bit of thought to the next project. I know there's a large contingent that would like to see another anthology, but I"m not sure that's the right way to go.
I will be announcing them in a week or two.
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Wolfgang Baur
Publisher, Kobold Press |
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| Eyebite |
| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 128
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| Wolfgang wrote: |
I know there's a large contingent that would like to see another anthology, but I"m not sure that's the right way to go.
I will be announcing them in a week or two. |
. . . And there's an equally huge contingent who are in just for the love of being involved in another OD project, regardless of the topic. 
Makes me sad to hear about the pirated copies, but I suppose it was just a matter of time before someone snuck in and did that. You hope for the best, but human nature being what it is, well . . . as you said, all it takes is one asshole.
I hope this doesn't deter you from future OD projects, whatever form they may take. |
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| Wolfgang |
| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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Kobold Overlord
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 4988
Location: The Mines
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It's deterring and depressing me in the short run. In the long run, I'm sure I'll tackle another one soon.
PDF might go away for that one, though. The more I think about it, the more I think I'd like to do a print project. We'll see.
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Wolfgang Baur
Publisher, Kobold Press |
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| elnopintan |
| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 6
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It's a pity to hear about this hateful piracy. I would prefer to have a watermarked PDF. The reason is that I can use them everywhere. I hope that printed version should be in a way that don't hurt too much to european patrons.
Nevertheless I hate more piracy of this great product, so I'll try to decide my next patronage looking to the content independently of the release method. |
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| kunger00 |
| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Patron
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 149
Location: central Texas
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| Wolfgang wrote: |
It's deterring and depressing me in the short run. In the long run, I'm sure I'll tackle another one soon.
PDF might go away for that one, though. The more I think about it, the more I think I'd like to do a print project. We'll see. |
You mean these haven't been print projects all along?
(looks at book shelf and the growing section of printed OD projects)
Looks printed to me!
Seriously though, I browse pdf's... even occassionally make hand outs, etc from them... but sitting around the table, I use print.
I know... I know...
I'm a grognard |
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| Cormac |
| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:47 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 8
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| Wolfgang wrote: |
| PDF might go away for that one, though. The more I think about it, the more I think I'd like to do a print project. We'll see. |
In case of print only OD project I really hope that maps and crunch could be in pdf format. |
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| terraleon |
| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Contributor
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 2013
Location: upstate NY
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there are a few options out there, some more time intensive than others...but I'd rather see a couple countermeasures added than have the projects fade. It's been fantastic, and I've loved both the process and running them.
-Ben.
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progressio sine timore aut praejudica - Spectemur agendo |
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| varianor |
| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 602
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I'm saddened to hear that someone has pirated a copy of a project, but I am not surprised. From the days of this discussion at Monte's boards, I can attest that there are also examples of people scanning print books. So I think more countermeasures would be good, but leave them available as pdfs.
Weirdly, I once DM'ed at a convention years ago. After the fact, one player asked me to give money to a game designer (perhaps due to my work on his fansite) since he had enjoyed the products so much. I did in fact mail the money out.
What I noticed since then is how many friends I have who casually download movies and TV shows off the net. How many of us watch stuff on Youtube? How much of that comes off cable where you have to pay for it? Should they have bought the DVD? Many people don't think about the consequences of their actions affecting those who strive long and hard to produce great products. |
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| Wolfgang |
| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Kobold Overlord
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 4988
Location: The Mines
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I thought that a small-scale, person-to-person project would be at less risk of piracy, since the theft is at a more personal level. As opposed to downloading something from a big conglomerate. Guess I was wrong.
I'm happy to consider watermarking or other solutions, but know little about how to implement them. If you do know (I'm looking at you Ben...), send me a note and we'll lay the groundwork for next time out.
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Wolfgang Baur
Publisher, Kobold Press |
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| m8adam |
| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 148
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Don't know much about the specifics of this discussion, but I'd have to say that these projects being of limited distribution probably has helped to keep them from being widely pirated. I know I can't find them on Limewire unlike a lot of WotC stuff.
As for countermeasures, it'd be nice to keep the pdf format to keep cost down, but i can understand how eliminating the easy-to-duplicate electronic format would help deter theft. Although a print copy can be scanned.
Ultimately I don't think there's anything you can do to ABSOLUTELY prevent piracy, but I also don't think it's such an issue that you'd have to take drastic measures to make it not worth the effort.
~Adam |
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| deinol |
| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 380
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I've been thinking a lot about the public release versus private edition since the recent poll. I'm a big supporter of the open source movement in software, so I myself would be willing to patronage a project that would be given away to anyone (electronically at least) for free. I see patronage as a way to support artists and writers I like, not as a way to gain exclusive content. I also like to collect things (you should see my bookshelves) so I understand the desire for limited works.
Having just examined the Zobeck Gazetteer as a stand-alone work, I find my desire to acquire Steam and Brass is lessened. While I would definitely grab a copy if the opportunity ever presented, I'm quite content with the setting material in both KQ and the Zobeck Gazetteer. I'd like to hear how well the Gazetteer is received by non-patrons. I think I'm leaning toward liking a mixed open/closed release. I missed out on Empire of the Ghouls, but I would have been very pleased if a Ghoul Gazetteer had been created. Putting together the OGL parts that further the open gaming movement into a public portion of a project seems a good way to go.
I do like having PDFs available. As an example, I printed the Zobeck Gazetteer and put it into a binder. I then found all the Zobeck articles in KQ and added them at the end. I even grabbed the clockwork creatures from Tome of Horrors and Advanced Bestiary. Not as pretty as the regular printed version, but a great 'working' copy that I don't mind using during games. I have to vote for watermark PDFs if it keeps them available. It's one of the reasons I subscribed to both KQ and Pathfinder instead of just getting them at stores. |
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| EL |
| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 53
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| Wolfgang wrote: |
It's deterring and depressing me in the short run. In the long run, I'm sure I'll tackle another one soon.
PDF might go away for that one, though. The more I think about it, the more I think I'd like to do a print project. We'll see. |
I purchased blood of the Gorgon just so I could purchase Empire of the Ghouls. I am glad I did both as both were excellent and I loved Empire so much I got it in a hard copy. I have to say I have had several friends ask if they could have a copy of the files and I have refused them all. I did loan out the Ghouls hardcopy to a friend but he was very much against piracy so I had no worries that he would try to scan and save the book.
This may seem kind of random but I just wanted to further enforce that one asshole shouldn't be the demise of this great thing you started. Most of us get this is how you make a living and out of respect for you and your talent would not allow others to undermine that.
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3E+PF=KQ subscription IMHO |
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| Zherog |
| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 586
Location: Bensalem, PA
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oooh - let's see how many people in a row can use the word "asshole" in a post. 
As for actual filesharing... I know two people who use it as a virtual bookstore. They browse a few things a month; if they like it, they go buy it. Otherwise they delete the file. However, they're very clearly in the minority. I get quite discouraged when I poke around various message boards and see people encouraging others to download books or songs or movies or software. It makes me a sad panda.
I'm not an existing OD customer (yet). That said, watermarked PDFs have never bothered me. Like most security features, I'm sure there's ways to crack it and remove the watermark; but I think, maybe, for something like this project, it could be enough of a security measure to prevent 99+% of the problems.
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John Ling
Freelance Writer
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| EL |
| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 27 May 2008
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| Zherog wrote: |
oooh - let's see how many people in a row can use the word "asshole" in a post.
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does it count if I am just quoting you?
Seriously I think it would be a real sucky thing if OD went the way of the dinosaur because of a minority of ... well you know.
Any decision on what edition the next OD project will be if and when the current problem is solved?
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3E+PF=KQ subscription IMHO |
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| Wolfgang |
| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Kobold Overlord
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 4988
Location: The Mines
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Well, as long as I limit the next project to 99 patrons, I should be fine then, right?
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Wolfgang Baur
Publisher, Kobold Press |
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