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| Cerunnos |
 Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, okay. Would I just start a thread in the KoboldQuarterly section of the forum, or what? And what's the thing about the wordcount? (And, pardon me for asking, but would it cost any money to be able to pitch it or something?)
...And I'm still fairly sure I'd need some definite help refining it so it's both actually worth taking as a class (i.e. other classes can't beat it at the very thing it specializes in) and isn't so breakable or confusing it'd drive every DM crazy trying to run it. >_>
Also, sorry for dragging a thread that was meant to be pretty short out so long. New guy, and still unfamiliar with the workings of everything around here. |
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| terraleon |
| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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I'd put it in General Gaming, actually.
And this is worth clarifying-- as far as I know, nothing at Open Design costs anything except the products in the store. Discussion costs you nothing, and you might say you get what you pay for. 
Kicking the topic around in General Gaming might help you consolidate the idea and better consider it for another form.
On a side note, there are two things I saw regarding ideas... the first was a graphic that said, "Give away your ideas. When you're looking for more ideas, you're hungry and willing to try new stuff. You're aware, you replenish. Besides, all those ideas belong to someone else-- they're just out there floating in the ether, waiting to be picked up."
The second was the fact that designers don't want to snag your ideas. They've got a lot of pet ideas of their own, and they want to pursue those ideas before they go after something that hasn't grabbed them by the collar and demanded it be expressed. Inspiration's a tricky thing that way.
So yes, I'd post your thoughts over at General Gaming, and see what comes from it.
-Ben.
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| Cerunnos |
| Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Alright, I'll see if I can put it together and set up a thread for it in General Gaming after I've done so. 
Thanks for the help!  |
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| Zherog |
| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:34 am Post subject: |
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One caveat before you start a thread... As a general rule of thumb, publishers don't want to print something that's already available on the internet. If I remember correctly, KQ is almost always* in that camp. If your desire is to actually publish this class, I highly recommend not starting up a thread to solicit feedback.
* I'll go with "almost always" just to leave a little wiggle room.
You can read about the KQ query process on this page (which is linked to the top of every page in the "Submit" link). When you send Wolfgang your query via e-mail (the address is on that page), you'll want to get to the point. Spend a sentence or two introducing yourself then dive into your idea. I find five sentences is a good target for a magazine article query. Don't keep secrets during a query -- though that applies more to adventure queries than articles about classes, it's something to keep in mind.
For your specific query, some things you probably want to include are:
- The name of the class
- The niche you think it fills, and why nothing else really hits the spot
- Highlight one or two class abilities (briefly) that you think are really awesome
- How many words you think you'll need to write up the full article. As a rough estimate, one page is about 600 words (give or take). Off the top of my head, I'd wager most base classes can be done in about 2200 words, and most prestige classes can be done in less - around 1400 or so. that's just a rough guess.
Just as importantly, there's things you probably don't need to mention:
- Including a list of class skills and how many skill points per level is almost certainly a waste of space in your query.
- Same is true for things like what Base Attack Bonus progression and what saves you'll use.
- A sample of your idea. Don't do this. If you send in an unsolicited piece of text, you put Wolfgang in an awkward position. For example, imagine you send in your class and by coincidence Wolfgang has something similar coming out in the Fall issue of the magazine. You see that something similar and jump to the conclusion that Wolfgang ripped you off. Maybe you're so pissed off you sue for copyright infringement. It'd be pretty easy for Wolfgang to defend against it, but it's time and money he doesn't want to spend. Even without the suit, you feel crummy because you think you were jobbed. It's best to just avoid it.
Based on anecdotal evidence, publishers will just delete an unsolicited manuscript. Because those headaches are real enough that they just don't want to deal with them, and they can then honestly say they delete all unsolicited manuscripts without even looking at them.
Wolfgang (in my opinion) is among the best in the industry at getting back to you in a timely fashion. The Submissions page says within 30 days, and if it takes that long it's still really good. So, while you wait sit tight. You can doodle your idea a bit, but don't get too carried away. Maybe it gets rejected; maybe Wolfgang likes the idea but asks you to head in a slightly different direction. Whatever. There's good reasons to not get too deep into actual writing just yet.
When you get your greenlight (remember, we're thinking positively ), you'll get a word count limit and a deadline. Do not ignore either one.
If Wolfgang tells you that you have 2200 words, you need to do your absolute best to come as close to that number as possible. +/-10% is usually OK -- but if you can get it down to +/- 3% you're even better. If you find that there is no way you can get your idea to fit into the word count, you need to contact Wolfgang as soon as possible. Don't wait until a week before it's due to bring up the issue. Explain your situation; tell him where you're running into trouble. He might ask to see what you have, or might not. In my experience, publishers are real good at dealing with this. They either spot where you're being overly verbose or they realize the initial count was too low or a host of other things. But the more notice you give that you're having a problem, the better.
Same is true for a deadline. Except there is no going over. Ever. If the publisher says he needs your manuscript by July 18th, he/she actually means it. There's a ton of work they have to do after you turn it over. They have to develop your idea (basically, checking your "crunch"). They have to edit your article. They have to place an art order (or find public domain art). They have to layout the article. They have to proofread, both after editing and after layout. The date they give you is very important for all these other tasks -- those people can't do their work without your manuscript.
*
Hopefully, that isn't too much information. And hopefully it helps you with the process a little bit.
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John Ling
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| James Thomas |
| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| I liked what you wrote John. In fact, I saved it for future reference. Thanks! |
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| Wolfgang |
| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 30 Dec 2007
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Location: The Mines
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John, you just saved me 30 minutes of typing. It's like I was reading exactly what's in my head on this topic, thank you!
I'll expand just on the "reprints from the internet" section. KQ is not, in fact, interested in reprinting published material. And publishing on the internet counts for that.
Also, regarding costs: pitching an idea on a forum or as a query to KQ costs nothing. Participating in a formal Open Design project (like Sunken Empires or Courts of the Shadow Fey) is for patrons only; the patronage fee is used to pay the lead designer, artists, mappers, layout, editors, etc.
It is an absolute steal; for just $25 or $75, you get access to great designers like Tim Connors and Richard Pett (and yes, me) and lots of feedback on your work. For months. Whenever you want.
I really should start charging a lot more for these projects....
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Wolfgang Baur
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| Cerunnos |
| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Alright, and thanks again for all the advice!
Though, one of the things I think I'm most concerned about is getting some people who actually know what the heck they're doing to go over the class, and help put it together. I'm just a player who likes the class idea and is tired of seeing it done poorly, but I have no experience as a DM and thus don't really know how to make the class not drive DMs crazy.  Even the one homebrew I made of it that a DM let me playtest in a campaign, he says it's INCREDIBLY hard to DM for. |
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| terraleon |
| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:08 am Post subject: |
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There have been articles that have grown out of online discussions (the alternate undead creation article comes to mind) but I'd call that the exception more than the rule.
Perhaps the best plan is to post that you're looking to discuss class creation for an article, and that you'd appreciate any advice on the matter, in posts or private messages, and then build a discussion offline from there.
EDIT: If you've got KQ#13, or other back issues, look at who the author of the arquebusier class was, or the spell-less ranger, and see if you can't contact them directly (via pm or post requesting they email you) to ask a couple of your questions.
-Ben.
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| Zherog |
| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Yay! I was useful!
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John Ling
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| Cerunnos |
| Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Alright, I'll look into that. Thanks again!
Wish me luck! |
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| seoinheritx |
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| terraleon |
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| seoinheritx wrote: |
| Open design is provide some good ideas and get the maximum result. |
I agree! Which project has been your favorite, and how did you benefit from it?
-Ben.
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| Zherog |
| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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The one... you know, the one with the thing...
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John Ling
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| Harry J J Gardner |
| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 04 Feb 2012
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Hey guys I just signed up after finding out what Open Design is all about and have to say I'm overjoyed by it. As someone who is very passionate about fantasy literature and fantasy setting design (as I'm sure everyone on these forums are!) it sounds perfect for the individual who really want's to be involved in this line of work and collaborate with other enthusiasts and professionals to see your combined efforts come to fruition.
I'm only 22 but it's only been in the last few years that Iv finally found something that I'm really really passionate about and that drives me, aswell as a hobby that could lead to a job maybe one day.
After that slightly dramatic and lengthy introduction are get to the point of why I posted here.
So I have been working on my own fantasy setting for some time now laying out the key groundwork for the feel and tone I want it to achieve. I have funded quite a bit on some big fantasy artists to do pieces to really bring the setting alive and also a cartographer but there is only so much a amateur setting designer can do and bring to the table by himself and I am no 'game' designer. I wouldn't know the first thing to do about tuning a setting into a rpg.
So where would you guys suggest I start? Do I pitch my setting and ideas to the designers in the appropriate thread hoping that it interests them and that they wish to enrich the setting with there own ideas and thoughts.
Or should I start of slow and enter into a patronage of something that is already underway. Maybe my enthusiasm is getting the better of me.
Either way I look forward to your suggestions and advice!
Kind regards,
Harry |
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| Wolfgang |
| Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Kobold Overlord
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 4988
Location: The Mines
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Hey Harry, welcome to the boards! It's fairly friendly here, and yes, it is exactly the sort of place where you can talk shop on design and possibly publish some work along those lines. The Open Design regulars have some serious design chops.
For publishing your own setting, there's three or four options:
1) Submit an Article. Most of what gets published by Open Design is either in Kobold Quarterly magazine (submission guidelines here) or in Open Design projects (you'd need to be a backer to start design on those, see next). KQ is the easiest, lowest-risk way to submit design work and see it succeed or fail. You could present just a small bit of your setting, of course, but Rome wasn't built in a day. Editors don't have much time for individual feedback, though you might get some.
2) Work on a Project. I'd recommend this as an easy way to get feedback and try out your design chops. If you complete a project as a backer, you might pitch and lead a future project. Several project patrons have done this in the past, and some of them have gone on to work elsewhere in the industry (like Adam Daigle, Brandon Hodge, Jim Groves, and others). Past and current projects are listed here.
3) Explore the Open Design standard setting, called Midgard. It's been designed by me and a group of others over the last year, and will be published soon. Perhaps something to check out, but definitely you should know that a lot of material from Open Design refers to Midgard and to past Open Design projects. Sort of the nature of the beast: put a bunch of gamers together, they'll build a world.
4) DIY! You can run with your own setting and publish it yourself, and you'll hew very closely. There's some good advice on design in the Complete Kobold Guide to Game Design, which might help. This is the steepest learning curve route, clearly, but also offers the largest scope to do things exactly as you want, rather than in a group setting with feedback.
Whew. Bit longwinded, but there you go. Hope it helps, and have fun!
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