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| The_Sultan |
 Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:30 pm Post subject: School me... |
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Patron
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 112
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I'll cut to the chase here: I want someone to wax poetic about how open design patronage is not the same thing as vanity press.
(Just to be clear, I'm not hating on open design - I want to get on board with Tales of the Old Margreve - I just need reasons to overcome this stigma I honestly don't know how I got.) |
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| yoda8myhead |
| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 9
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I've only been involved in the Shore to Sea/Sunken Empires project, but it's not vanity press at all. Basically, the primary author(s) will do most of the writing, but patrons can contribute traps, monsters, NPCs, and suggest plot twists and such. Generally senior patrons get to do more of the designing and then standard patrons vote on which elements they would most like to see in the adventure.
Essentially, being a patron means that you get to help brainstorm and provide feedback for a specific project, as if you were the developer of a publishing company. In a way, that's exactly what you are since you've paid (hired) an author to design a specific project. |
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| Zherog |
| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Contributor
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 586
Location: Bensalem, PA
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Do me a favor, Sultan, and define "vanity press" please? Because, honestly, I've not heard the term so I can't really help you without knowing what you mean.
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John Ling
Freelance Writer
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| yoda8myhead |
| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 9
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| Zherog wrote: |
| Do me a favor, Sultan, and define "vanity press" please? Because, honestly, I've not heard the term so I can't really help you without knowing what you mean. |
Vanity presses are common on the internet. They usually purport themselves to be respectable publishers who will include authors' poems or stories in anthologies if they pay them. Many claim to select the authors based on quality of their work, but in reality they publish everything submitted because then they can sell copies of the book to the authors and their families. It's a way of stroking one's own ego and being able to say, "I'm a published poet." |
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| The_Sultan |
| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Patron
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 112
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| Zherog wrote: |
| Do me a favor, Sultan, and define "vanity press" please? Because, honestly, I've not heard the term so I can't really help you without knowing what you mean. |
Yeah, what yoda said. The simplest way I can think of to put it: Pay money to see your material get printed. |
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| Zherog |
| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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Contributor
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 586
Location: Bensalem, PA
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Ah, OK. I've seen those. (Some of them go back to before the internet; I remember getting one for a poem I wrote back in High School in the '80s.)
Open Design isn't that. A better comparison for an OD project is a Renaissance artist who worked for a patron on commission. Paying for an OD project is similar to that. You get to have a voice in what the final project will look like. You'll be able to offer suggestions about what you want to see, vote on proposals for the eight adventure slots within the book, and - if you're interested in that sort of thing - even potentially contribute.
You're paying for a book that contains 8 adventures, and those 8 adventures are steered by the collective will of the patrons. Whether you opt to contribute is entirely up to you. But, for example, I was a patron on Halls of the Mountain King and didn't make a proposal, and yet feel I got my money's worth from the project.
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John Ling
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| Wolfgang |
| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Kobold Overlord
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 4984
Location: The Mines
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Two main differences, the first of which is that vanity presses never reject an author, while Open Design most certainly can and does reject material all the time. More than 8 people would like to design one of the anthology adventures, but there's only room for 8, so only the strongest are chosen. Some patrons who pitch to write an adventure are turned down. There's feedback as to why, and how to improve for the next pitch.
I don't recall a vanity press ever saying "No, we won't publish that."
The other difference I'd point to is that Open Design is collaborative design. If your pitch is accepted or your monster is taken for a bestiary, that doesn't mean it goes into print without changes. Critique, review, and playtest are part of the process as well.
I've never heard of a vanity press offering a critique. Maybe they do, but I doubt it.
So, really more like a writer's workshop (but for game designers), than like a vanity press.
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Wolfgang Baur
Publisher, Kobold Press |
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| The_Sultan |
| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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Patron
Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 112
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Well thanks guys!
It might be worth adding that to your Open Design FAQ, 'cause the answers there really left me... unconvinced.
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You're only young once, but you can be immature forever. |
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| Wolfgang |
| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Kobold Overlord
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 4984
Location: The Mines
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Yeah, that FAQ is a stinker. I'll work with Scott to update it soon.
Thanks for suggesting it!
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Wolfgang Baur
Publisher, Kobold Press |
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