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| Doomedpaladin |
 Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:28 am Post subject: Alchemical Item creation |
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Could someone please tell me where I can find rules for the creation of new types of Alchemical Items for PFRPG or even 3.5 (NOT how to create existing types)? How do you determine the save DCs, the creation costs, and the like?
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| Zherog |
| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Published information should provide it. If you're talking about homebrewing stuff, the only rule -- as far as I know -- is "make it up as you go along."
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| Doomedpaladin |
| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Zherog wrote: |
| Published information should provide it. If you're talking about homebrewing stuff, the only rule -- as far as I know -- is "make it up as you go along." |
When you say "published information" you mean like the Craft (Alchemy) skill description in the main book? I mean that if I submit something like pepper spray, for example, to a OD project that doesn't have an equivelent item in the equipment guide do I just play it by ear? I've got the Adventurer's Armory for PF and almost all the 3.5 books so I'm sure I could find something similar to base my spray off of but I'd still like to know how the original designers determined what was appropriate for things like this.
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| Zherog |
| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Sorry. When I say "published information" I'm talking about alchemical items found in places other than the core rulebook.
| Quote: |
| I mean that if I submit something like pepper spray, for example, to a OD project that doesn't have an equivelent item in the equipment guide do I just play it by ear? I've got the Adventurer's Armory for PF and almost all the 3.5 books so I'm sure I could find something similar to base my spray off of but I'd still like to know how the original designers determined what was appropriate for things like this. |
"Play it by ear" pretty much covers it, to the best of my knowledge. And that's what I was getting at: any published alchemical item should provide the Craft DC (though I've seen plenty in 3.5 sources that don't). If you're looking to homebrew/design a new item, it's up to you to figure out the cost and Craft DC, and you're only recourse -- as far as I know -- is to make stuff up as you go along.
I'd definitely use existing items as a guide. Using your pepper spray example, I'd probably look at thunderstones as a guide. A thunderstone defeans the target for an hour; your pepper spray probably blinds the target for some period of time. An hour sounds a bit high for actual pepper spray, but if you change the name to something not from the real world, you can certainly go with a "blinds the target for one hour if it fails a Fort save" format. Then, you can pretty much just copy the thunderstone's stats -- save DC, price, and Craft DC.
Hope that's more helpful.
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| Jaye |
| Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:25 am Post subject: Unfortunately... |
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Doomed,
| Doomedpaladin wrote: |
| When you say "published information" you mean like the Craft (Alchemy) skill description in the main book? I mean that if I submit something like pepper spray, for example, to a OD project that doesn't have an equivelent item in the equipment guide do I just play it by ear? |
Pepper Spray (or two very close variants) appeared in The Tome of Secrets (pg 146-157).
When I design items, I generally look at the physical mechanics and try to match those with the available game mechanics. If you wanted an alchemical item that affected an area (pepper spray), for instance, you'd match it with a similar spell (stinking cloud) and adjust accordingly.
If you want something that targets a single individual, it would require a touch attack (and might require a save, as well).
Generally speaking, I think the DC to Craft an item should be close (in range), but not less than the DC the item requires for the save. Depending on how deliberating the effect is should also modify the Craft DC.
I'd consider a +1 DC to items that deal damage fair. I'd consider a +2 Craft DC that mimics a condition (staggered, fatigued) fair. Items that deal Ability damage would be +3. And so on.
Generally, you don't want items that are more powerful than similar spells or effects.
For instance, let's Craft Staggering Mist:
I want it to stagger the target. I want it to occupy an area. I want it to be inhaled by the target unless they make a Fort save.
I decide the base Fort save is going to be 12. So, I match that with my Craft (Alchemy) DC. But, because this is going to stagger a target, I increase the craft DC to 14. It's also a touch attack to hit the opponents square (an easy throw with a 10' range), so I increase it to 16. But, I want to give the target a Fort save to avoid the effect. So, I reduce the Craft DC by 1. The mist remains for 1d6 rounds or until a strong wind takes it away...
I've got something similar to stinking cloud with a similar DC. However, I'm only going to let this mist affect one 5' square and it's going to cost considerably more to produce (50 gp). It'll do the job, but a wizard is still better in the long run.
So, it's part observation and part "winging it." I think a good grasp on the mechanics keep the latter part of design intact (and balanced).
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| Doomedpaladin |
| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Unfortunately... |
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| Jaye wrote: |
Doomed,
| Doomedpaladin wrote: |
| When you say "published information" you mean like the Craft (Alchemy) skill description in the main book? I mean that if I submit something like pepper spray, for example, to a OD project that doesn't have an equivelent item in the equipment guide do I just play it by ear? |
Pepper Spray (or two very close variants) appeared in The Tome of Secrets (pg 146-157).
When I design items, I generally look at the physical mechanics and try to match those with the available game mechanics. If you wanted an alchemical item that affected an area (pepper spray), for instance, you'd match it with a similar spell (stinking cloud) and adjust accordingly.
If you want something that targets a single individual, it would require a touch attack (and might require a save, as well).
Generally speaking, I think the DC to Craft an item should be close (in range), but not less than the DC the item requires for the save. Depending on how deliberating the effect is should also modify the Craft DC.
I'd consider a +1 DC to items that deal damage fair. I'd consider a +2 Craft DC that mimics a condition (staggered, fatigued) fair. Items that deal Ability damage would be +3. And so on.
Generally, you don't want items that are more powerful than similar spells or effects.
For instance, let's Craft Staggering Mist:
I want it to stagger the target. I want it to occupy an area. I want it to be inhaled by the target unless they make a Fort save.
I decide the base Fort save is going to be 12. So, I match that with my Craft (Alchemy) DC. But, because this is going to stagger a target, I increase the craft DC to 14. It's also a touch attack to hit the opponents square (an easy throw with a 10' range), so I increase it to 16. But, I want to give the target a Fort save to avoid the effect. So, I reduce the Craft DC by 1. The mist remains for 1d6 rounds or until a strong wind takes it away...
I've got something similar to stinking cloud with a similar DC. However, I'm only going to let this mist affect one 5' square and it's going to cost considerably more to produce (50 gp). It'll do the job, but a wizard is still better in the long run.
So, it's part observation and part "winging it." I think a good grasp on the mechanics keep the latter part of design intact (and balanced). |
Jaye, you are awesome. This is exactly the type of advice I was looking for.
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| Jaye |
| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:35 am Post subject: |
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