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| Aberzanzorax |
 Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:37 am Post subject: Open Design Map AWESOMENESS!!!! |
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So, while, um, pimping one of the latest OD projects on the Sinister Adventures forums, the topic came up that the maps for OD have been lackluster in one of the poster's opinions.
He said "The final product has maps printed in black in white, as is the case with most of the Open Design projects. The rendition is terrible. However, the PDFs are in color and are much clearer. The city of Zobeck map in the city's gaz and in HOTMK, the Ventshaft Room, the Dwarven Cantons in the Dwarf Gaz, all are rather dark and/or faded in parts and a tad confusing. It comes down to the fact that I pay almost 50 bucks for HOTMK, and the maps are poor quality. But I've said this before... So that shall we say is that. Until the map quality has improved, I'm not getting involved with Open Design."
I had an idea that I would LOVE to see implemented:
I wonder if a "map handout" done through lulu as "box set" type looseleaf handouts...in full glossy color, along with both DM and Player versions of maps would be a product worth buying.
Imagine: 8.5X11 glossy maps (the same maps we have for the adventures in the book, but blown up and glorious) printed in full color. Better yet, one is a handout for players, the other, keyed for the DM.
BETTER STILL??? This would, of course, cost more, but...PLAYABLE FOLDOUT MAPS. A player map that is a full size, to scale, adventure map on which to place minis!
OH, DEAR GOD, WOULD I BUY THIS!
Also, as a note, since maps are expensive, perhaps this could supplement the map budget. |
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| avidreader514 |
| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:06 am Post subject: Curse You, Lulu! |
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That's a printing problem with Lulu, and has nothing to do with the gorgeous work of the cartographer.
Patrons are paying for their final full-colour PDF - access to the print-on-demand version is a perk - so the maps have to be great in the PDF - and they are.
I can try to minimize the ways in which Lulu mangles the colour-to-B&W conversion, but I can't predict the results.
And, alas, Lulu has priced the full-colour printing option beyond the range of good sense. |
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| Wolfgang |
| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:29 am Post subject: |
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I'm also VERY disappointed by the reproduction of Lulu maps; they've been embarrassing, frankly. I'm actively seeking another printer for the next project (and considering abandoning print editions if I can't find one).
HOWEVER. While the full-color HotMK would be outrageously expensive, the OP's suggestion of a map folio is dead on. We tried to do one for HotMK; it did not happen as I hoped.
But it's great feedback, and thanks for bringing it back here, Aberzanzorax.
EDIT TO ADD: AvidReader, what do you think of the feasability of doing a Map Folio in October sometime?
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Wolfgang Baur
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| Qwilion |
| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| jonroberts |
| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| I am horrified to hear maps being used as a reason to avoid OD and am willing to help out in whatever way to rectify this. A map folio would be very cool, and as for poster maps - I know that there are battlemap scale versions of the Halls maps out there (and indeed sitting on my hard drive...) The issue is the cost - print on demand poster maps are expensive. |
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| Wolfgang |
| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:57 am Post subject: |
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I'm sort of horrified that I only heard this secondhand. A direct complaint would have gotten action a lot sooner.
I certainly wouldn't assign any blame to you, Mr. Roberts; you've turned out superior maps every time. The black-and-white printing
The trouble is entirely on my end, in translating those high-res battlemaps into something physical at a reasonable cost. The complaint on the poor B&W map versions is accurate; Lulu did a poor job. Other solutions have not presented themselves.
Maybe a map folio PDF would be a start.
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Wolfgang Baur
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| jonroberts |
| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:36 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Wolfgang  I chipped in on the SA thread and it is indeed the b+w lulu prints that are the issue.
What format would the map folio be? I'd guess that the high res battlemaps are still not going to be financially viable. For example, the Lower Halls map from Halls is 5' 5" square. Now that's quite a bit larger than most standard posters and I'm guessing it'll cost $50 or more to get that as a battlemap. A lot of the maps are that kind of scale.
Perhaps a product with the maps in colour on full letter sized pages with a couple of letter sized battlemaps for the final encounter areas (the ventshafts map being the obvious candidate)? |
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| varianor |
| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:28 am Post subject: |
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My how the times change. I love the look of excellent color maps (like Jon Roberts') while reading a product, but I actually prefer the clarity that comes with a well-done black and white map for DMing. It shows more than a color map to my eyes.
It sounds like the aforementioned complainer has some sort of other axe to grind actually, unless he really and truly uses every map he gets. Like he chooses not to pay the price, and is justifying it with the map issue. |
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| Wolfgang |
| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Perhaps a product with the maps in colour on full letter sized pages with a couple of letter sized battlemaps for the final encounter areas (the ventshafts map being the obvious candidate)? |
Yes, I think a set of maps that could be printed to 8.5 by 11 or A4 paper and then tiled together is the only solution that doesn't wind up costing $50 or more. Let's discuss by email.
And it's entirely possible the poster has an ax to grind, or he might just not be happy with what he got. Of course I'd rather get the chance to fix the problem than have him complain about it on some boards I don't necessarily read, but.... It's impossible to please everyone.
Can someone provide a link to that Sinister thread?
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Wolfgang Baur
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| jonroberts |
| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Wolfgang |
| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I think the line-art would make for the safest bet. And would keep things simple on the tabletop.
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Wolfgang Baur
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| meverz |
| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| jonroberts wrote: |
| The maps all exist as line art before they are colour, so perhaps the most useful b+w version would be the line-art version. Certainly cuts down the chance of lulu screwing things up? |
I would LOVE a line art B+W copy of all the battle maps in a product. I can easily (and cheaply) print these out myself (even a couple of copies), for playing at the table, saving the time drawing them out on the battle mat.
Please, if nothing else, at least include the line art B+W maps in an appendix of the pdf. |
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| Aberzanzorax |
| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| I'd add that I'd love to see either an affordable battlemat in b+w or a set of colored (normal sized page) tiles (ideally with margins that overlap with "keys" showing where to connect them to one another. |
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| jonroberts |
| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:39 am Post subject: |
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One question is whether or not this should be a print product that comes in the post or a pdf that gets you print yourself?
@meverz: That's certainly been taken on board. Would you want these at battlemap scale or the same scale as the current pdf? |
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| meverz |
| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| jonroberts wrote: |
| @meverz: That's certainly been taken on board. Would you want these at battlemap scale or the same scale as the current pdf? |
I don't really mind to be honest. The advantage of having a "simple" line art map is that you can scale it up pretty easily without losing the resolution, although battlemap scale would make my job much easier. |
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